Danila Botha is the author of three short story collections, Got No Secrets and For All the Men (and Some of the Women I’ve Known) which was a finalist for the Trillium Book Award, The Vine Awards and the ReLit Award. Her new collection, Things that Cause Inappropriate Happiness will be published in March 2024 by Guernica Editions.

She is also the author of the award-winning novel Too Much on the Inside which was recently optioned for film. Her new novel, A Place for People Like Us will be published by Guernica in 2025. She is part of the faculty at Humber School for Writers and teaches Creative Writing at University of Toronto’s School of Continuing Studies. She just completed writing and illustrating her first graphic novel, Call me Vidal.

You’ve already published three books—two collections of short stories, Got No Secrets (2010) and For All the Men (and Some of the Women) I’ve Known (2017) and a novel, Too Much on the Inside (2015)—and now have another story collection, Things That Cause Inappropriate Happiness (2024) coming out in March, and a novel, “A Place for People Like Us” and a graphic novel coming out in the next year or so. If this isn’t too big of a question, can you let me know what was the difference between writing your earlier works and your most recent works?

This is a great question, thank you so much for asking. When I look back on earlier work, I always hope I’m growing as a writer. I hope in terms of craft and characterization and pacing and all the pieces that make something work that I’m always learning and developing and hopefully refining. I think the biggest thing that’s changed with each project is a willingness to dive in and explore whatever weird things I’m obsessed with at the time, with maybe a little more confidence that with enough research and time and editing I can make it work. I was very afraid with my first collection, of deviating too much in terms of unifying themes or what I’d learned needed to happen to make something work.

With my new collection, I found myself writing about Jewish identity and a lot of its facets. I started to explore this in For All the Men (And Some of the Women) I’ve Known, and it was really interesting to go into it more. There was just a of complex subjects that I found fascinating and I’m really grateful to have the space to explore them.  I also combined things in ways I’d never done before, for example, writing about the opiate crisis and Anne Frank or writing about an artist and art teacher with rheumatoid arthritis who meets an angel version of Leonard Cohen, and goes back in time to when she was a teenager herself.

I hope that my empathy for all of my characters comes through, and that with each project I have a little more confidence in taking risks and exploring new subjects and ideas.

Has it become easier to get a book together?

In terms of writing short fiction, which is what I love to do the most, I’m always writing it, so I guess in that way, when it comes time to put a collection together, I think it has a little. Sometimes a collection has a very specific idea or theme or timeline, which I find helpful.

With my new collection, I was surprised by the volume of material I had and kept wanting to add, but my amazing editor, Michael Mirolla at Guernica Editions was incredibly supportive and the wonderful editors I worked with at different literary magazines were all so encouraging and exacting. I’m so grateful.

I think it’s always scary to start a new project, and with everything new we write, there’s always unexpected challenges, but in some ways, hopefully we all gain a little more confidence each time.

I always find novel writing hard (but ultimately worth it).

Did you find it easier to market your subsequent books after having published one or two?

I think so. Marketing your own work is always strange, but with time, it comes to feel like part of the job. It’s strange but you almost have to divorce the fact that it’s your own work, and treat it as if you’re marketing the work of a friend you love. You want them to reach as many people as possible, you believe in their work (or you believe in your characters and the story itself).

I’m also really interested to know how the process of creating a graphic novel has been going for you. How did the idea to do this come about, why did you want to explore this new medium, etc.?

You ask the best questions, Susan 😊 I studied visual arts in university, along with Creative Writing, when I was at York as an undergraduate. I love art. I can’t remember a time when I wasn’t painting or drawing. In fact I loved it so much that I was worried that it couldn’t possibly be a career. I remember spending hours in the studio, or in my apartment, not even realizing how much time had gone by, being so focused. It’s a similar thing when I write short fiction or fiction; I love creating worlds and characters so much, trying to capture their voices, and their ways of seeing and understanding the world, and their motivations. It's so deeply enjoyable and absorbing and I feel so grateful that I get to work on two of my greatest passions.

Drawing and painting have always been part of my writing process. I’ve always sketched and story boarded as a way of embodying my characters (it’s so helpful when it comes to describing facial expressions and body language, not to mention descriptions of where they are, and how they see things) I’ve also always loved graphic novels. I remember where I was the first time I read Maus or Persepolis, for example (I have shelves full of graphic novels in my house).

I think so much can be expressed with dialogue, and line and texture and colour or black and white. It’s such an amazing medium, I’ve wanted to try it for a long time, but I think it made sense with the story I was telling. My character Vidal’s childhood was very much based on my late grandmother’s and her siblings’ stories, which were always conveyed to me in magical, colourful ways. (I have videos of the family home, and of my great aunt Yocheved telling me about their turns of phrase and describing specific details to me, which are so amazing).

As soon as I wrote the first sentence, I saw it all in colour and texture and I wanted to see if I could express it and tell it that way. Vidal also is a Sephardic Jewish artist who travels to Paris in the 1930s and used colour to express his outgoing personality, his ambitions and charm. I had a lot of fun researching the time period, researching Jewish artists of the time, including Chaim Soutine, whom he meets, and developing his style of painting. It was also interesting to convey with different colours what happened when things changed and he was trapped in France. The research was hard to do, and hard to draw and paint, but it felt like a story I really wanted to tell and I’m grateful to have been able to do it.

I’m excited to try to write and illustrate another graphic novel with a different voice and to try other projects  with illustrations. I’ve been floating ideas about kids books in my mind (and in my sketchbook lately) I’ve been reading a lot of amazing kids books to my kids lately (Danielle Daniel, Hasan Namir, and Marie Louise Gay are big favourites of theirs among others). Right now, I’m playing with ideas for a story that involves dogs doing ballet (seriously).

You teach writing also and maybe have some more day jobs? How do you manage your time and make sure you carve out enough time to write between other things? Any tips?

I teach writing and I mentor writers as part of the faculty at Humber School for Writers and I also teach and mentor writers through University of Toronto’s School of Continuing Studies. Whenever I can, I try to do writing residencies. I’ve had some amazing experiences.

I’m not naturally a very schedule-oriented person, but I’ve found I’ve had to be, otherwise I fall behind. I designate certain times every day for reading, for writing, for marking, and for teaching. I find it the only way to make sure that there’s time for everything I hope to do.

On this topic, how do you feel that teaching writing—having to think about it and explain it to others as a craft, to understand and explain why a student’s writing is or is not working—has affected your own writing?

I really love getting to teach and mentor writers. They’re so talented, so enthusiastic and so hard working. It’s genuinely inspiring to get to read their work, to get to recommend books or stories and to see how much their work develops and grows over several drafts or even over a year or two.

I think we all have struggles that are similar, with dialogue or description or plotting and pacing or voice just not working- and it’s good to remember that all experience levels, our struggles and first drafts are fundamentally similar.

I try to encourage and support them as much as I can—to remind them how important it is to believe in their own stories and voices. I also use track changes when I give notes so that they have the option to accept or reject—because writing is so subjective, and no one knows the story they want to tell better than they do. It’s always a balance between listening to others and trusting oneself when getting critique. I’m grateful to get to work with such talented writers. The biggest thing I hope to teach them, aside from craft and reading more is to persevere.

What are your thoughts on Goodreads? Do you think authors should ignore it, worry about it, engage with it? Do you ever use it to decide whether or not to read a book?

This is a great question too. Honestly, I feel guilty that I don’t use Goodreads more. I probably should. I really like the idea of a huge virtual book club, and of hearing from readers and connecting with other writers. I enjoy it for the most part when I use it, I just often forget to with all the social media platforms that exist. I find Bookstagram and BookTok and Threads and even Twitter really helpful for book recommendations.

The dark side of these things (the recent scandal with review bombing and racism) was really upsetting to read about.

I think it can be hard as a writer to read critique of your book, to hear about it when someone just doesn’t like it, but I think it’s also important not to take readership for granted. I’m grateful people read what I write, and it’s impossible to write something that everyone universally loves.  

I think as writers we’re all sensitive and if it hurts too much I can definitely understand why writers stay away. I’m glad it exists and I hope if writers and readers want to, they can use it safely and connect over books they feel strongly about.

How do you deal with the deflating side of being an author—not being mentioned on lists of books “we’re anticipating,” not being on awards lists, negative reviews, etc.?

It’s hard that there are things that are out of our control, no matter how hard we work. And the element of rejection is always part of the job (or any job in the arts I think) no matter what stage of career a writer is at. It’s important to remember how subjective these things are, and to believe in yourself and keep going and pushing no matter what.

I mean, you can be rejected by literary journals, or for grants, or by publishers or agents or awards or reviews etc, but you an also be accepted and admired for the exact same work somewhere else. I think everyone wants to have their work deeply understood and acknowledged and appreciated, but at the same time we take turns, different writers get recognition at different times, and I think that’s good. I think the writing community can be an amazing source of support, and solidarity and encouragement, because who understands these things and can empathize more than other writers?

I think perseverance, working as hard on craft and the work itself and on doing what we can to help it to find an audience is all we can do. I think eventually everything comes, just not necessarily exactly when we want it to. All we can keep doing as writers is to keep going, to keep believing in our work and in our characters and stories, and appreciate the times things do align-because those moments are amazing too (and rejection can really help you put the victories in perspective, and really appreciate the acceptances or accomplishments)

What would be your number one piece of advice for an emerging author (a) creatively and (b) about the business side of writing?

(a) To write as much as possible (to just get it down on paper, to start with). Alison Pick has this amazing thing she says, to remember that every book you’ve ever loved started with a bad first draft. Just give yourself permission to write, as much as possible. Work on the writing until it’s as good in every way as it can possibly be. Join writer’s groups to get feedback from peers, do writing workshops and classes if you can. Read as much as possible. Attend literary events and readings for inspiration, to meet other writers and to support community.

(b) I wouldn’t worry about the business side until you feel completely confident about the writing itself, until it’s as polished and well-researched and well-developed as possible. Once writers feel ready to submit work, I encourage entering contests (with websites like Submittable and Duosama and Chill Subs, I think it’s easier than it used to be, I remember the days of submitting work by mail, in self addressed envelopes and how the sight of your own handwriting in your mailbox could make you feel sick).

There are so many ways to learn about the industry, which is changing all the time. We do an amazing intensive in the summer at Humber School for Writers which is an incredible crash course in industry standards. There are also courses on specific subjects at U of T’s SCS among other places. There are industry websites, like Quill & Quire, Publisher’s Weekly and Writer’s Digest. There are amazing workshops on a huge variety of subjects through the Writer’s Union of Canada, among other places. Another great resource is the podcast The Shit No One Tells You About Writing, hosted by Bianca Marais, Carly Waters and Cecilia Lyra. CBC Books has some amazing lists of literary journals and contest throughout Canada to submit work to.

And finally, are you working on anything new now?

I’m always writing new short fiction. It gives me so much joy, I love the form so much. I’m working on ideas for a new novel, or possibly a novel in short stories (but I’m only still in the research/rough ideas phase). I’m thinking about another graphic novel and I’m starting to plan a kids book that I hope to write and illustrate.